So, necrophilia. Someone *coughzenchickcough* has for the past few years, introduced me to new people like this:
“Hey, this is ACW. He likes necrophilia.” Then she looks at me and goes, “Have fun!” and walks away. Sometimes she literally barks, “Go!” before throwing down her hand like a referee, observing the trainwreck of conversation that follows.
As I look at the partly amused and partly horrified face of a stranger I have to very quickly explain the whole history of this necrophilia thing, explain that I find necrophilia repulsive, and then explain that I’m hard pressed to understand why we can’t allow people to do it.
Most of the time people try to corner me by saying things like, “But digging up a grave is trespassing!” or “You wouldn’t want some stranger humping your relatives’ corpses, would you?”
And that’s when it finally clicked with me: if you treat necrophilia like a consensual sexual encounter, similar rules have to be followed. You can’t just go into somebody’s house and have sex with them. That’s tresspassing (to say the least). Similarly, you can’t just bust into a morgue or cemetery. You can’t just start having sex with a stranger (for the most part), and similarly, you can’t start having sex with a stranger’s corpse.
Now, the issue of consent is a difficult one, because a body can’t consent. However, the person can consent before they become a body, and in that case, I don’t see any reason why a necrophile couldn’t have sex with that body if they had been given consent to do so by the person before they became a body. See what I mean?
So, because I have back to back meetings pretty much all day long, I have a homework assignment for you:
In the comments, give me your best arguments for or against necrophilia. Feel free to play devil’s advocate and take a stance that you might not actually support. Feel free to challenge one another’s points. You can check my necrophilia tag for some of the arguments I’ve made in the past. Also, I still find necrophilia repulsive, but if someone gave someone else consent to hump their corpse, I don’t see why we shouldn’t let them do it.
People keep asking me to post about necrophilia, so if I come back to check my comments and see nothing going on, this’ll probably be the last time I post about necrophilia. I can only make the same arguments over and over again so many times.
Guess I’d have to say “against”. I realize some people *like* ice cubes during sex, but seriously, a full body ice cube doesn’t sound appealing. Also, what happens if, while hovering over said corpse, it deflates, so to speak - expelling horrid gases from one end or the other just because you put a wee bit too much weight on the body. Just… gross!!
That being said, I’ve had to fart during sex before. It’s a traumatic thing. I guess you could reconcile the fact that “they didn’t mean to” in that case, but still… ick.
New York Times. Just this morning. “Economists Dissect the ‘Yuck’ Factor”. Not sure their use of the word “dissect” is an accident.
Oh, I hate the Times. You have to be registered to read the article online. I will sum up.
It says that health, safety, fairness are not the factors that cause us to outlaw some behavior (they use dwarf tossing, eating horsemeat, and selling a kidney as examples, but I think we could add corpsefucking to that list), and instead it is society’s sense of repugnance that leads us to ban those activities.
Queen Victoria was so appalled at the idea of girl-on-girl that she could not bring herself to admit it existed - hence, in Victorian England, hott lesbian action was legal, but Oscar Wilde got arrested and thrown in jail pretty much for wearing puffy shirts and eyeliner.
May seem like an obvious point, but it is the Times after all. And I thought it was an odd coincidence.
D - 209 days!
Personally, I see only one argument against necrophilia, but it’s a biggie. Maggots! This movie shows the damage done to illicit grave diggers in other countries.
That’s gross! But the flexibility you can achieve once rigor mortis leaves the body is amazing!
Years ago, while I watched my girlfriend drunkenly make-out with another girl on the dance-floor, I was asked why I wan’t angry: “She’s cheating on you with that girl,” this guy said. I told him it wasn’t “cheating” but was, instead, “hot”…which it most certainy was.
I assume it’s the same sort of thing with necrophilia: if you’ve got a thing for decaying-flesh, and just happen to have a dead body rotting away on your living-room rug, have at it - there will always be naysayers.
Y’gotta do what FEELS right, y’know?
So, if a husband asks his wife for butt sex and she replies “Over my dead body”, does that count as consent once she is dead?
Very simply put, no harm, no foul. Go ahead and fuck my dead grannie, I don’t care. Just don’t tell me about it, or film it and put it up on the internet (www.ifuctyourdeadgrannie.com) and we’re cool.
Besides, my Grannie always took great pride in her looks, in some way I’m sure she’d be flattered that some bat-shit-crazy corpse fucker found her attractive.
I am against necrophilia unless love is involved. If you loved the person and they died then it’s ok to necrophile. If you’re just trying to rape the dead person then… nope, not ok.
Zu wins!
I’d say pre-death consent has nothing to do with it. If the body is on someone else’s property (or itslf can be considered someone else’s property), then getting access to have sex with it should be against the law. It’s a simple property crime. But if the body is yours or you have legal access to it, then have at it. Just don’t expect me to shake your hand if we ever meet.
Now, if someone with legal access to my grandmother’s dead body has an orgy with it, I wouldn’t expect the police to arrest him, but I would expect the police to arrest me after I cut the sicko’s dick off and made him swallow it.
Many of you are assuming that the necrophile is lusting after the corpse of someone he or she doesn’t know. I’d say if the person gave consent to sex after death to a specific person while still in pre-death stage, that consent would hold up in court.
Living wills dictating who takes over medical decisions and laying out what a person finds permissible for medical care once they can no longer make decisions are absolutely binding once the person reaches a stage where they can no longer consent.
And more to the point, wills and documents specifying funeral arrangements and preferences for the former shell of oneself left behind after death (or whatever you believe happens to the parts of a dead person post-mortem) are also binding documents.
As for the gross-out factor, that’s a matter handled between the consenting adults. It wouldn’t be too tough to specify whether the boinking of the deceased occurred pre-embalming, post-embalming or at some ritually preferable stage in between. I would think the sex of the decedent would be a factor in this decision as well–for instance, men would be a particularly difficult shag once rigor mortis has receded, but a female partner would need to be post-rigor to prevent chafing.
SO–having all sorts of final wishes established in court for a very nicely long time, why shouldn’t it be possible to add into those documents something to the effect of, “Oh, and before you plant the posies in the y-incision of my autopsy, give ol’ ACW a shot at banging me, ok? No buttsecks please, but other acts of sodomy on my deceased being are okey-dokey with me.”
I’ve heard of much stranger directions for laying bodies to rest–why is it so much less acceptable to try one last time to get laid?
See what happens when you have Vicodin for breakfast, Gentle Readers? Don’t try this at home.
Its an odd subject especially if you try to view it from the perspective of various civilizations’s beliefs that have come (and possibly gone by now). Say, ancient Egyptians for instance. Their entire culture encapsulated and celebrated the aspect of “death”. Bodies were cleansed, decorated, bejeweled, and of course, embalmbed after all aforementioned items were done; so it is clear that according to them the person had graduated to a “higher state” of “life” so-to-speak. Somehow, no matter how incredibly pronounced the celebration of dead bodies or death, and at such a frantic level too, no where do I find that necrophilia was allowed or encouraged in that sense.(’Cuz hey, if you really want to fantasize and say, oh yeah - Princess Hêtshepsit is so utterly beloved and we are SO happy she’s attained such a true level of “realness” - lets go make out with her; somehow I dont think this would have carried over well.) And mind you, this is from a culture that ADORES death. So go figure. Taboo aspects exist even in Taboo Land.
I think this is a spiritual subject for some people in addition to a gross out/taboo issue. I personally believe that the corpse is only a shell when someone dies. So while I would prefer not to know about it, because I find it squicky personally, I can’t really find a reason why it inspires such loathing. I mean, it’s a container, and the contents have left the building, right?
It isn’t like incest or other societal taboos that have a reason and living people who can get hurt. I think the problem lies in violation of the survivors more than violation of the corpse - people’s families feel violated at the thought of someone infringing on their cherished memory of their relative or friend. So in the end (sic) it has nothing to do with granny or uncle Ted getting a little pole one last time, it has more to do with how it makes the living feel. Unless you are stealing the corpse or violating some other law that makes sense, I say pork away, but please, think of the rest of us and keep it to yourself.
Seems like it could be just another check box on the driver’s license application. Organ donor? Check. Postmortem sexual consent? Check.
Worst Movie Ever (with a budget)?
Easy…
Freddy…. Got…. Fingered.
Rock On,
Aitch
i like jamaila’s comment. i would not be checking said box, but it does eliminate a lot of argument.
personally i am against necrophilia, but with consent, i would not deny someone else their choice.
may we petition the candidates to add this to their running platforms?
Wendy- Yes, but you wouldn’t create a law against ice cubes during sex, or farting during sex, would you? Yes, it’s gross and uncomfortable, but why draw the line there?
YNL- Count on the librarian to drop the research on us. ;)
SoG- That’s true. Nature does have a way of saying, “You probably shouldn’t be doing this.” Still, if the harm is only to the person involved, and they’re willing to accept it, what’s the big deal?
Ryan- Agreed. It’s not for me, but I have trouble telling someone else no, all other laws considered.
Zu- FTW ladies and gentleman! Nice one!
missmargo- I think family is sort of part of this equation, but sort of not. You don’t want to find out your grandmother gets off being shat upon, but it’s really not up to us to decide what she does.
Poppy- Which sort of brings up my point. You can’t legally rape the living, so you shouldn’t be able to rape the dead either.
S. Reed- But can a body really be considered property? I would imagine not, but I’m not sure from a legal standpoint. Who owns the corpse? Is a corpse transferable? How many times?
Pandora- Nice “Last Dance with Mary Jane” argument. Well reasoned.
Liz- Interesting point. I hadn’t considered that. But I wonder if there isn’t/wasn’t a culture that worships the dead more than the Egyptians, and if some culture somewhere hasn’t condoned necrophilia.
Leslie- You raise two good points. However, your latter point rings most strongly with me, i.e. “Do what you want, but keep it to yourself.” Sort of hearkens back to the whole “Don’t tread on me” thing.
Jamaila- That would certainly save us ALL quite a bit of time, though could make for some embarrassing bar entries.
Harris- Did you mean to comment on the last post, or is necrophilia featured in Freddy Got Fingered? I haven’t seen it.
Kendra- Fair enough. I think candidates should stump on this issue right away. It should be a deciding issue for all voters!
Fuck all ya’ll. I just like the way the maggots feel on my dick.
I win!
I’m not taking a side-I’m just here to defend myself.
Because, once again…ACW has butchered the truth almost beyond recognition.
I don’t say: “this is ACW. He likes necrophelia.” and then shoot off like the Road Runner, leaving a trail of cartoon road dust.
I will admit, however, when introducing ACW to someone who I know might appreciate the conversation, I’ll say, “come on…tell them about how you feel about the LEGALITY of necrophelia.” (that is because I am one of the few, the proud, who *understands* how he actually feels about the issue.)
And, let’s face it-he’s never refused. He might roll his eyes, but you can still see the glint in them when I ask. So don’t give me this “poor-little-me-Zenchick-makes-me-do-attention-seeking-stuff” crap.
I think the Internets also has a right to know that the more adult beverages he has had, the less he plays coy, and the louder and more vile the argument.
Look, some people have kids who play the violin for company. I have ACW to argue the civil right to fuck corpses. What can I say?
There is a Canadian movie, called Kissed, that deals with necrophilia from a female point of view. It’s well-written, acted with sensitivity and insight, and comes the closest to explaining necrophilia in a spiritual light. It’s a great film and I would recommend it.
I would not, conversely, recommend necrophilia itself. I am the first to admit that there is the “ick” factor, but that alone isn’t enough to make it illegal.
As for the question of whether a corpse is property, I do believe the legal authorities have some clear guidelines on that. My understanding is that, in Canada anyway, a corpse is owned by the government.
This conversation is a lot like one that I had with a man several years ago, who had no moral or legal objection to incest between siblings who were of a similar age. Sibling too far apart in age, he felt, ran the risk of exploitation.
I can hear the staunch Christian right now: “See, Martha. We let them queers get married and all of a sudden, they’re wanting to bang dead folks and siblings! It aint right!”
I have no words to discuss this subject. Not because I have any prudish stance against it. It is just that I was eating and now I feel sick.
I feel sick because the other day I asked my teen daughter if she would like some mung beans. And she nearly died laughing. And then she told me what ‘mung’ is. And I wanted to die. Cause it is that gross.
And now you have reminded me. Go to Urban Dictionary if you have a REALLY STRONG stomach.
I am going to petition to have this line added to the drivers license form at the DMV right after the organ donor question.
I give full authority for any/all interested persons to have sexual congress with my body.
Or some such. Who wants to be the first to sign me petition. I wonder how long it would take for me to get on the Oprah show. Or at least Maury.
ugh. i used to think “they can do whatever they want to my body because i’ll be dead” such as donate it to science and all that, but i should put some conditions on that statement…
also - i like to introduce my roommate to folks as “this is eva. she’s into furries.” i do it mostly for the shock value (because she’s so innocent and sweet and not into anything kinky whatsoever) but also because given by the response to the introduction it tells you what sort of people you’re dealing with.